Also it's interesting that people claim health and brain health benefits from CR, and it seems to increase stress and decrease growth pathways, like caffeine seems to do. there might be a parallel there.
-- On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Mike <mikebk339@gmail.com> wrote:
Mike L., what makes you think that large doses would reverse the effect??On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Mike L. <cool2bwichu@gmail.com> wrote:
none of this really answers my question though...do large amounts of
caffeine reverse this effect and actually increase neurogenesis? And
if not, how much caffeine actually produces this effect? (considering
the study above claims that this would only occur at 1400mg for
someone who weighs 160 lbs)...
On Sep 22, 1:11 am, Mike <mikebk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm wondering if simply having continuously elevated stress levels also
> hinders hippocampal neurogenesis.
>
> as I pointed before:
>
> - chill time (including sleeping, marijuana high, etc.) --> neurogenesis
> - stressing time --> metabolic ressources directed toward "monitoring the
> environment"
>
> Tell me what you think, I might be off with that.
>
> In other words is it specific chemicals in the coffee or just the general
> stress response that hinders neurogenesis?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Mr. Menesus <mene...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Not very relevant to usual consumption since I think most people are
> >> drinking regular coffee/tea or using powder/concentrated forms, but
> >> still, curious that caffeine has an odd curve - down then up then down
> >> again.
>
> > While it doesn't follow the "dose-response" curve typical of pharmacology:
> >http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9b/DoseResponse000.jpg
>
> > it does seem to follow the curve typical of hormesis:
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis
>
> > Other plant toxins offer a positive benefit; for instance many
> > phytochemicals in healthy vegetables are actually toxins that, in the small
> > dose of a serving of vegetables, lead to adaptations by the organism.
>
> > Perhaps this explains why in small doses caffeine has a positive effect but
> > in large doses it has a negative one.
>
> >> did findwww.scicompdf.se/cooldown/haskell_2008.pdf(abstract:> > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 8:05 PM, Gwern Branwen <gwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> While we are on the topic of caffeine....
>
> >> "Caffeine at levels found in decaffeinated beverages is behaviourally
> >> active"
>
> >> > It has previously been assumed that levels of caffeine typically found
> >> in decaffeinated beverages have no behavioural effects. However, recent
> >> findings from our laboratory indicate that caffeine doses as low as 9 mg
> >> have psychoactive properties which can endure for several hours. The current
> >> study aimed to establish the lowest active dose of caffeine and to ascertain
> >> the duration of any effects. Twenty participants took part in this
> >> randomised, placebo-controlled, double-blind, balanced-crossover study
> >> assessing the effects of three different doses of caffeine (2.5, 5, and 10
> >> mg) administered in fruit juice. Cognitive performance, mood, autonomic
> >> activity and salivary caffeine were assessed pre-dose and at 1, 3, 6 and 9 h
> >> post-dose. Compared with placebo, performance was impaired by 2.5 mg, whilst
> >> 5 mg had negative effects on mood and mixed effects on performance and 10 mg
> >> improved performance. A number of these effects were apparent at 9 h
> >> post-treatment. Given that the average cup of decaffeinated coffee contains
> >> 3–5 mg caffeine, these results demonstrate that decaffeinated coffee is not
> >> inert as previously believed and this has implications for research which
> >> utilises decaffeinated coffee as placebo. Effects of caffeine are also
> >> longer-lasting than previously thought with effects apparent 9 h post-dose.
> >> This finding may offer an alternative explanation to withdrawal models for
> >> differing results in the literature pertaining to baseline performance in
> >> consumers and non-consumers of caffeine.
>
> >>http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195666308000196
>
> >> Not very relevant to usual consumption since I think most people are
> >> drinking regular coffee/tea or using powder/concentrated forms, but
> >> still, curious that caffeine has an odd curve - down then up then down
> >> again.
>
> >> I couldn't find the PDF fulltext of that study, but while searching, I
> >>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18006208) which is a nice study> >> confirminghttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18681988- that
> >> theanine+caffeine is better than either alone (although I hadn't--
> >> expected to see any negative effects from theanine alone).
>
> >> --
> >> gwern
> >>http://www.gwern.net
>
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